From the Forum issue 99

[Doddsy]

I loved my Speccy there was something incredibly British about it. Both in its design and the quirky games made available for it like Manic Miner, Skool Daze and Sabre Wulf.

[r0jaws]

I loved my Speccy there was something incredibly British about it. Both in its design and the quirky games made available for it like Manic Miner, Skool Daze and Sabre Wulf.

That's a very good point, the Speccy kind of emulates our Britishness in the same way the C64 is very American.
Not for the Yanks a puny, cheap little computer with austerity bolted right into the core. No, they want something, bigger, flasher with all the bells and whistles. More memory, custom chips, cartridge slot, dedicated "datasette", built in Joystick slots, better sound and graphics, and obviously more money at the end of the day.
The Speccy probably just fits our British psyche slightly better. Lets be honest, everyone must have taken a modicum of pride in the fact that for one brief shining moment in the 80's, it looked like Britain would be leading the world, and beating off all comers, in IT based technology. The Speccy gave us that. In comparison the C64 is just a flashy toy.

[deadpan666]

Got to be Speccy for me!

I sat and played my mate's C64 for weeks and got it into my head that that was the computer I wanted, but then I saw that the +2A came with a lightgun and Operation Wolf! That sold it to me, as Op Wolf was one of my favourite arcade games at the time...

I soon discovered that despite both machines being pretty damn decent, the Speccy somehow had more...character...it seemed to have a lot more personality than the flashy C64 for some reason.

As I had the 128k Speccy, sound wasn't much of an issue with a lot of games....I loved the Speccy tunes just as much as the C64 SID stuff...With regard to the graphics, I preferred the Speccy's monochrome but detailed look in most games, compared to the C64's colourful but blocky one. This of course wasn't always the case, but it did seem that a lot of my favourite games just weren't as good on C64 either....Chase HQ, Target Renegade, Rastan...all of these had versions I much preferred on the Speccy. But then again, you have to consider stuff like Ghouls 'n' Ghosts and Rainbow Islands....

So it's probably best to have both...but for me personally, the Spectrum's slightly underdog tendencies, much more British personality and the fact that I actually had a choice to use a keyboard in most games rather than a joystick that would break anytime I played a game that required more than just left, right and fire, all adds up to make it the choice for me!

[Kai]

Definitely the C64! Better games, great sounds thanks to the SID chip, nicer look. Yes, I like breadbins.

[joefish]

And NorthWay, I think you'll find your old VIC-40 makes for a far more efficient doorstop...

Get your slanders right first: VIC-64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64)
And all that rubber doesn't make for a good doorstop? Could have fooled me...

A good doorstop needs mass, and, failing that, a good wedge shape.

And thank you for pointing me to a page which says "The product was codenamed the VIC-40 as the successor to the popular VIC-20". I don't really think it helps to make your point to quote a Wikipedia article that contradicts it for anyone that can be bothered to read past the first paragraph. It does, however, help me make my point, that the C64 owners on here seem to be miles ahead in the talking-utter-cr@p leagues.

P.S. From another comment, it cost an extra twenty quid to add two joystick ports to a 48K Speccy. That hardly compares with the extra two-hundred and twenty-four quid to buy a C64!

[Mayhem]

And thank you for pointing me to a page which says "The product was codenamed the VIC-40 as the successor to the popular VIC-20". I don't really think it helps to make your point to quote a Wikipedia article that contradicts it for anyone that can be bothered to read past the first paragraph. It does, however, help me make my point, that the C64 owners on here seem to be miles ahead in the talking-utter-cr@p leagues.

P.S. From another comment, it cost an extra twenty quid to add two joystick ports to a 48K Speccy. That hardly compares with the extra two-hundred and twenty-four quid to buy a C64!

Codenamed. Not released as. It came out as the Vic64 in Sweden for marketing reasons (and maybe other Scandinavian countries), but was the C64 elsewhere.

As I recall, the 48k version of the Speccy launched at £175. So that's a difference of £175 maximum for the C64 at the time of launch, and my research showed many places doing it for £300 by Xmas 1982. Why did my folks buy a C64 for me instead of a Speccy? It was what was available from a work colleague of my father at the time, but they had been looking for one based on having a proper keyboard, and no interface "issues"; the family that lived next door to them back when I was born, they had kept in touch with, and they had a Speccy. So I guess my parents were more clued up on its faults than some others heh.

[Smurph]

Spectrum all the way. I preferred the games line-up, especially over some of the atrocious c64 versions of certain arcade games. The graphics are much less blocky, and the 128k Speccy had tremendous sound.

[SirClive]

Colour doesn't maketh the game. Spectrum all the way!

[joefish]

Codenamed. Not released as.

So what? I never made a claim either way. If you wish to be that pedantic then I deliberately used the prototype name, just as Northway did about the Spectrum, so you're both misrepresenting the quote.

As I recall, the 48k version of the Speccy launched at £175. So that's a difference of £175 maximum for the C64 at the time of launch, and my research showed many places doing it for £300 by Xmas 1982.

The C64 wasn't even released in the UK until 1983 and then at £399. What 'research' led you to a price of £300 by Christmas of 1982? That's the sort of thing I expect from the Guardian or a Murdoch rag, not a retro gaming site.

[Mayhem]

Going through a whole bunch of magazines when researching for the C64 Retrospective article I wrote for Retro Gamer (issue #31). In summary, this showed the price it was being offered for (pre Xmas published adverts) varied between 300 and 349 pounds, and a couple of press release like articles. No where ever mentioned 399 pounds. If you're quoting Wikpedia, I believe it to be wrong on that count (there's no citation either). My revision A PAL C64 was built around two months before the end of 1982. ICPUG reported that Commodore were going for a launch price of £299 + VAT in its November 1982 issue, and in an early 1983 edition, noted that around 10,000 PAL C64s had arrived in the country pre Xmas. One article in VIC Computing backs that up with a promise from Commodore to have the machine available by Xmas and selling at that price. I think the issues that happened with the Rev A in the US (sparkle et al), caused the halt of any more machines to be available.

It's similar to the NES in the US. People quote the 1985 launch year without realising it was a very limited release, and mostly in the NY area. The rest of the country didn't see it until early 1986. I believe similar happened with the C64 in the UK.

Now, if you have definite proof from Commodore or another source that shows it definitely didn't launch until after Xmas in the UK and it was for £399, please go ahead and show me as I would be interested to see...

[joefish]

Well, that's better than nothing - but you know as well as I do that magazine adverts bore little relation to high street prices or supply dates for new machines. Particularly at a time before any of them had actually acquired any units for distribution. Admittedly Sinclair was far worse for misleading expectations, but you've got nothing to suggest anyone got a PAL C64 for Christmas that year, much less that they got a substantial discount on it.

Now even if I say, OK, you've looked into it more than I have, and take your price of £349, that's still TWICE the price of the ZX Spectrum at launch. And still £154 quid more than a Spectrum with even the finest quality twin-port joystick interface with no lingering 'issues'. That's still a hell of a difference. It still puts the price of a C64 level with the price of 48K Spectrum, a joystick interface, joystick, tape recorder, and an entire other 16K Spectrum. It's still a massive saving just to buy the one Spectrum. What do you get for all the extra expense? A better class of beeping and fatter, browner graphics. I'd want a little more for that sort of outlay.

[joefish]

I'm wondering is this thread going to overtake this one as your most active topic, Joefish?

That thread was entertaining and informative.
This one is just tragic.

[markopoloman]

I'm wondering is this thread going to overtake this one as your most active topic, Joefish?

That thread was entertaining and informative.
This one is just tragic.

It's tragic that you see the difference between a Speccy and C64 is 'better class of beeping and fatter, browner graphics'....

Your glasses sir, are rose tinted with to much of a hint of brown!

[joefish]

You're right, sometimes I'm far too generous.

[AmigaJay]

Colour doesn't maketh the game. Spectrum all the way!

Can i just agree and quote you? because i know your quote will make the magazine