Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

[Antiriad2097]

I've owned a PS3 for nearly three years and have never once wanted to use more than two USB ports, how many memory sticks with p0rn are you trying to connect??

Guitar Hero controllers and mics use USB, so 2 may be well short for many players. Even playing solo I fill those two with the mic and drums and have to unplug the camera to do so.

[DreamcastRIP]

Now DLC has been pretty much covered, time for IAP!

In-App Purchases, for those not au fait with iOS et al.

As I'm a consumer (thumbs up to Freestyler there for his great post ) I avoid such games on my iPhone like the plague 99% of the time.

Do I think the IAP model should be stopped? Nope. I've enjoyed some extra content I've bought on a few very rare occasions.

However, most of the time this is my MO,

* Sees cool-looking iOS game just released that has garnered some decent reviews
* Goes to App Store
* Notices game has IAP
* Opens IAP menu within App Store
* Notices IAP purchase are fundamental to enjoying the whole game experience in a satisfactory manner
* Exits App Store without having made purchase

So, as a consumer, I frequently exercise my right not to purchase games largely because of the way said games utilise the IAP model.

[DreamcastRIP]

I've owned a PS3 for nearly three years and have never once wanted to use more than two USB ports, how many memory sticks with p0rn are you trying to connect??

Guitar Hero controllers and mics use USB, so 2 may be well short for many players. Even playing solo I fill those two with the mic and drums and have to unplug the camera to do so.

Yep, and the G-Con 3 'light gun' requires the use of two USB ports too.

[Freestyler]

Do I think the IAP model should be stopped? Nope. I've enjoyed some extra content I've bought on a few very rare occasions.

However, most of the time this is my MO,

* Sees cool-looking iOS game just released that has garnered some decent reviews
* Goes to App Store
* Notices game has IAP
* Opens IAP menu within App Store
* Notices IAP purchase are fundamental to enjoying the whole game experience in a satisfactory manner
* Exits App Store without having made purchase

So, as a consumer, I frequently exercise my right not to purchase games largely because of the way said games utilise the IAP model.

This same problem existed massively during the "bad old days" of Free-to-Play MMORPGs. It took about 8 years to get them into a position where they're now a viable gaming experience. Hopefully we won't have to wait so long before the DLC scam mutates into something serviceable.

From the early mistakes of the past (Horse armour!! ) to the shenanigans of the present (Halo: Reach having over 120 separate items of DLC, last time I checked!) all the way through Capcom and EA's apparent suicidal death wish we're about due for something worthwhileto come from it.

Cancel all DLC and make it for game expansions only? Get rid of it altogether?

[The Beans]

First off I am a games consumer, not a games Publisher. Or Developer. What does that mean? Well, I don't care how much the games cost to make, or how many man-hours it took. All I care about is the final retail price. I am a Consumer.

By all means make the greatest game ever told, if you want. Make it over fifteen years using 1,500 artists, musicians, level designers and whatever. Make it the best it can be! Just don't price it at £60 and expect me to buy it. And don't plead costs to me, as I'm not interested. I am a Consumer.

I don't care how much people think games "should" be worth. I don't care how much Publishers think they are worth. All I care about is how much I can buy them for. It's not my job, or responsibility to get involved in debate. All I am is the End-User. I am a Consumer.

You're entitled to think that way.
But never, ever moan about games becoming generic, EA's sequelitis, publishers never taking a chance, great games that don't sell and therefore don't get a sequel, games that do sell but still don't get a sequel, publishers binning studios, favourite studios going bust, favourite franchises coming to an end, digital distribution, DLC models ... and all the other moans and groans that populate forums like this everywhere.

Because it's all your fault. You make it happen. All of it. Supply is dictated by demand and if money can't be made from that demand then the supply stops.
If you want games in the future then publishers have to make money. You want game prices to stay the same as ten years ago. That's all you're willing to pay. That's ten years of inflation and rising costs that start before the game is even coded. Ten years worth of wage rises. Ten years worth of fuel rise. Ten years worth of almost every single thing involved rising in cost.

You can have those prices you want for sure. But the games you'll get will have to be less than you currently know. And they'll be games we've seen many times before because nobody can risk money on something that might lose. Don't moan when it happens. You caused it.

[DreamcastRIP]

... Supply is dictated by demand and if money can't be made from that demand then the supply stops.

Too simplistic. Market forces will dictate that suppliers will come to supply something different or find a new way of supplying what they currently supply. It was always thus and forever will be. Or in the instance where over capacity exists then it'll be a case of the survival of the fittest during a process of rationalisation.

[The Beans]

... Supply is dictated by demand and if money can't be made from that demand then the supply stops.

Too simplistic. Market forces will dictate that suppliers will come to supply something different or find a new way of supplying what they currently supply.

Which is what is happening. What do you think DLC and digital distribution are? It's a change in the way the product is supplied and the form in which that product takes. Just a couple of the many ways in which the industry is having to change because the bulk of it can no longer survive on the old model in the face of rampant secondhand sales and customers who think games should cost next to nothing no matter what goes into their production. The games you want, the games with lots of unlockables and loads of content available at a price that's out of date by a decade are stopping. They have to. There's no money in it unless you have a huge IP that taps into the mainstream and huge funds to market it, or you copy a game that has those things and ride on its tail. This entire thread is about this really. The point I've made isn't too simplistic at all. It's just that you don't know how to apply it to the current game industry.

[DreamcastRIP]

... Supply is dictated by demand and if money can't be made from that demand then the supply stops.

Too simplistic. Market forces will dictate that suppliers will come to supply something different or find a new way of supplying what they currently supply.

Which is what is happening. What do you think DLC and digital distribution are?

I'm perfectly aware of what they are. If you consider I at all indicated anything to the contrary then please show me where.

[The Beans]

Which is what is happening. What do you think DLC and digital distribution are?

I'm perfectly aware of what they are. If you consider I at all indicated anything to the contrary then please show me where.

It was a rhetorical question put forward to improve clarification for yourself. Not only a trolling pedant in the face of an opinion you don't like but also a chooser of the literal definition of a selected quote when you've got nothing in the tank for a reasoned response.
Surely the word "infantile" can't be far away. Closely followed by the phrase "sweeping generalisation".

[DreamcastRIP]

Which is what is happening. What do you think DLC and digital distribution are?

I'm perfectly aware of what they are. If you consider I at all indicated anything to the contrary then please show me where.

It was a rhetorical question put forward to improve clarification for yourself. Not only a trolling pedant in the face of an opinion you don't like but also a chooser of the literal definition of a selected quote when you've got nothing in the tank for a reasoned response.
Surely the word "infantile" can't be far away. Closely followed by the phrase "sweeping generalisation".

[Freestyler]

It's not all doom and gloom. Notice the smaller Indie Publishers have no problem at all finding and making a massive (in terms of their Studio size) profit on their releases? It's the mega-zerg Publishers that are struggling to "make ends meet" in these harsh times. Note that make ends meet in their definition means a steady 10% year-on-year increase in sales. They have Investors that demand Return. Those Investors scream "Ten percent! Ten percent!" Or they can just put their money in a Bank and get it that way.

A big title that sells 10 million is the same as 10 titles that sell a million each. Both would use comparatively the same amount of Staff, but the 10 for 1 mill approach could allow for a sleeper hit that sells significantly more. The 10 mill game is the very definition of Eggs in One Basket. No wonder some choke. Luckily it managed to sell that 10 million (in this example) so it made back its costs. Imagine if it didn't? That's another Developer gone then.

Games don't have to be massive and far reaching in scope. Look at Minecraft. Angry Birds. Farmville. Counter Strike: Source. Cut The Rope. Realm of the Mad God. Legend of Grimrock. Limbo. Fez. World of Goo. Cave Story. Braid. Super Meat Boy...

What I'm saying is for every potentially Studio-busting mega-game such as Skyrim or Fallout 3 there's a wealth of other, smaller scope games that are at least equal to, if not sometimes better quality than, the big hitters. And they're ALL cheaper. Cheaper to make, cheaper to market, and most importantly of all: Cheaper to buy.

Mega Publishers don't have it the way they used to. Like the Music, magazine, and book Industries they're going to have to change their business models to survive. None of those other Industries have had to dumb down all of their product to get sales. Yes there's loads of hopeless, mindless, generic trash available. But it's not all trash!

[Freestyler]

I should say however that I love those massive games such as Skyrim, Saints Row, Fallout 3 and whatnot. I really really love them!
I just mean there doesn't have to be just those 100 million budget games. Sometimes I want to play Minesweeper too.

But not for £60.

[Misery]

It's not all doom and gloom. Notice the smaller Indie Publishers have no problem at all finding and making a massive (in terms of their Studio size) profit on their releases? It's the mega-zerg Publishers that are struggling to "make ends meet" in these harsh times. Note that make ends meet in their definition means a steady 10% year-on-year increase in sales. They have Investors that demand Return. Those Investors scream "Ten percent! Ten percent!" Or they can just put their money in a Bank and get it that way.

A big title that sells 10 million is the same as 10 titles that sell a million each. Both would use comparatively the same amount of Staff, but the 10 for 1 mill approach could allow for a sleeper hit that sells significantly more. The 10 mill game is the very definition of Eggs in One Basket. No wonder some choke. Luckily it managed to sell that 10 million (in this example) so it made back its costs. Imagine if it didn't? That's another Developer gone then.

Games don't have to be massive and far reaching in scope. Look at Minecraft. Angry Birds. Farmville. Counter Strike: Source. Cut The Rope. Realm of the Mad God. Legend of Grimrock. Limbo. Fez. World of Goo. Cave Story. Braid. Super Meat Boy...

What I'm saying is for every potentially Studio-busting mega-game such as Skyrim or Fallout 3 there's a wealth of other, smaller scope games that are at least equal to, if not sometimes better quality than, the big hitters. And they're ALL cheaper. Cheaper to make, cheaper to market, and most importantly of all: Cheaper to buy.

Mega Publishers don't have it the way they used to. Like the Music, magazine, and book Industries they're going to have to change their business models to survive. None of those other Industries have had to dumb down all of their product to get sales. Yes there's loads of hopeless, mindless, generic trash available. But it's not all trash!

Well put.

I only wish I'd found the indie gaming scene sooner than I did. Back during the later parts of the PS2 era, and the early parts of the current set of consoles, I was often bored outta my skull just due to a lack of non-sucky games to play. Hadnt even BEGUN to look at all of the awesome stuff that PCs had, from smaller or independant devs. And of course I didnt have the iPad yet either.

Lately, I'm rarely bored. And I'm rarely bored because of games that barely cost anything, so I'm rarely bored AND have alot of cash lying around. Definitely a better situation!

[DreamcastRIP]

Industry 'analyst' Michael Pachter,

“... the stuff on the disc, some gamers feel entitled to because they bought the disc, so they should have a right to anything that’s on the disc. And that’s a dicey one, you actually do own the disc and I think, theoretically, if you could crack the code on the DLC you probably would be allowed to access it without paying. And I’m not even sure that’s stealing because you did, in fact, buy the disc. That’s about as close as you can get to legal piracy.”

An interesting point!

Another thought:

Some have commented that for publishers to prosper they need to release paid for DLC in a world where so many gamers are content to wait a few weeks after a game's release in order to pick it up at a price far below its SRP.

Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?

[Freestyler]

Some have commented that for publishers to prosper they need to release paid for DLC in a world where so many gamers are content to wait a few weeks after a game's release in order to pick it up at a price far below its SRP.

Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?

"Pre-Order Black Ops 2 from GAME and get this Day 1 unlockable super Sniper Rifle that can shoot through walls! Only from GAME!"

The real problem here is some people don't want to spend £50-£60 on a new game. Not because we're all thieving skinflints! (although I am! ) it's because oftentimes there are so many games being released at full price we just don't have the time to play them all!

Why should I buy Skyrim on day 1 for £50 when I'm still playing Saint's Row 3? Should I be expected to buy it full price on day 1, even though I won't get to play it for another couple of months? Or is it still ok for me to buy it when I'm "ready" to play it? What happens if other games (and oh boy, there will be others) come by in the meantime? All full price too? Whether I'm ready or not?

The poor Publishers! So much product available! So many mouths to feed!