From the Forum issue 99

[thevulture]

The title and in-game tunes were often the reason friends and i bought certain C64 games.I'd hate to loose say Driller or Darkside's epic tracks just for faster screen update, even ropey conversions i'd happily play for hours if the in game track was a blinder, i.e Commando.

Delta i found best played in dark room with music turned up.

! thing i found with certain Speccy shoot em ups was whilst the sprites were razor sharp, it often be hard to pick out shots fired by your foes as they blended in with the rest of the backdrops etc.Monochrome graphics (if that's the correct term?), hard on the eyes at times.

Also, personally found likes of Platoon 'worked' better on C64, graphics looked more atmospheric than on the Speccy.Again personal taste here.

[HalcyonDaze00]

started with a spectrum
upgraded to the c64
ignored the amstrad

[NorthWay]

And NorthWay, I think you'll find your old VIC-40 makes for a far more efficient doorstop...

Get your slanders right first: VIC-64 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64)

And all that rubber doesn't make for a good doorstop? Could have fooled me...

[Havantgottaclue]

I know I posted a rubbish flamebait comment earlier, and possibly here comes another, but hey - it's just a slightly odd comparison anyway, really.

The ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 were both very competitively priced and blew the real competitors in their own marketplace away. They were the most successful in their respective price ranges. The Spectrum left the likes of the Oric and Jupiter Ace for dust, because at the lower end of the market it seemed the best thing on offer. The C64 left earlier competitors such as the Dragon and the TI99/4a trailing in its wake

Looking upon the computers as mere games machines - as I suppose we are liable to do on a forum dedicated to gaming - the margin can seem more slender. But the C64, with its array of expansion ports, was a far more complete computer than the Spectrum - and rightly so, you paid for that capability. The C64 itself comes second best in comparison to the BBC Master, but of course that was in a higher price bracket. The fact that you *can* attach joysticks and other attachments to the Speccy to make it more expandable is missing the point - you're then talking about laying out a lot more cash, nullifying its price advantage.

People who admire the lovely detailed graphics of the Spectrum are forgetting that they look better on modern screens and under emulation than they ever did on our old tellies back in the 80s. Game developers could easily have adopted hi-res mode on the C64 if they had thought that having the detail was more important than having the colour. But it often made more sense to double up the pixels horizontally anyway, because if you didn't you'd end up with chroma noise distortion. On some machines, like the Atari XL, this was used as a rather lateral method to add colour to an otherwise monochrome (and I *mean* monochrome - the Atari's hires mode genuinely *is* that) screen.

It makes no sense going on about the Speccy's CPU "power". The Z80 was a knock-off of the Intel 8080, a processor that was outdated by the late 70s. The fact that it had a higher clock speed was irrelevant 90% of the time - many comparable instructions took more processor cycles to execute anyway. Still, the computational advantage might have held sway on some wireframe games, but lets not forget that those sorts of games were crap on all 8-bit machines, apart from the odd game that transcended the machines' limitations such as Elite, which made the slowness tolerable on all the formats, C64 included. Battle Command was a great game, and why? Because the C64 had a cartridge port as standard, which meant you could dump a load of look-up tables on the cart and hey presto! The slow computational power of the CPU was countered in one fell swoop.

C64 owners weren't short-changed by the CPU - the investment was made in the custom chips, which take a huge load off the CPU, while the Spectrum's CPU is expected to handle just about everything. The C64 could've been given a Motorola 6809 like the Dragon, as this was considered much more powerful than either the MOS 6502 or the Z80 - but it was much more expensive (I think the 6809 cost something like $175, when apparently MOS Technologies could manufacture 6502s for about $30). The budget for the Dragon was spent there, and we all know what Dragon games look and sound like as a result. Those who give short shrift to the C64's sprite capabilities should look at their nearest rivals - the Atari 8-bit, on which the sprites are few and splodgy, and the MSX, on which the sprites are many but tiny.

As far as games were concerned, the Spectrum does get a few victories but overall, it's men against boys, for me. Comparisons like Chase HQ are often a source of amusement to me. Okay, so it's an utter disaster on the C64. The Spectrum version is praised widely, but I think a lot of that admiration stems from getting more out of the machine than anyone thought it capable of. But it is better than the diabolical C64 version, so Speccy fans rejoice at their format getting one over the big beige one, without realising that it's still not actually much cop. I remember expecting quite a lot out of Speccy Chase HQ as a result, but actually it's pretty sluggish, and playing it is a pretty miserable experience next to the C64's big hitters such as Powerdrift, Turbo Outrun and Turbocharge.

TL;DR: refer to my previous post.

[DreamcastRIP]

Commodore, then under Jack Tramiel's leadership, actually owned MOS Technologies, iirc. I've read the company supplied chips to Commodore at cost price so that would seemingly explain for why Commodore were paying so little for that chip.

[JackBurton-Me]

It's got to be the Spectrum. I first saw one at a friend's house aged 5 and played Match Day and Booty. From that day I've loved games. I'm now about to turn 32.

[clarance]

Didn't own either, but have to go for the Speccy - all my friends had one, never knew anyone worth knowing with a 64 to be honest The Spectrum was truly the working-man's(children's) computer of choice. So many great memories, so many great games, such a flimsy little thing - but it did the business.

[nakamura]

I could never really take the speccy seriously at the time. All of the games just looked rubbish compared to the best C64 games. I was about 9 though.

[thevulture]

My best friend (at the time) and i used to squander our dinner money on Bubble Bobble at the local fleapit amusement arcade and we are talking seedy place, even by Holsworthy standards...anywho, he was a Speccy owner, i a C64 owner, so when the home conversions came out, we of course nabbed the versions for our machines.

The game just felt more at home on the C64 rather than Speccy, the C64 hardware just seemed to capture the flavour of the coin op a lot better.

Also, talk made of C64 colours avaiable, sometimes it worked to a games advantage, Platoon on C64 used dark and murky colours to a fantastic effect, really helped create an atmosphere, as for the Speccy colour scheme in games...M'laud i present to you:

Matchday 2 white players on a blue pitch...was it set on the planet qwark?

[Mayhem]

Commodore, then under Jack Tramiel's leadership, actually owned MOS Technologies, iirc. I've read the company supplied chips to Commodore at cost price so that would seemingly explain for why Commodore were paying so little for that chip.

Yes. Commodore bought MOS in the mid 70s, mostly as a way to ensure chip supply for the PET computers I believe. While being owned, MOS was still able to operate fairly autonomously, and readily sold chips still to a lot of other companies. Could you imagine that today though? If a company bought another, you can pretty well ensure it's going on lockdown availability wise... especially in regards to patents.

[skinny]

I had a Spectrum. It was great because it meant being able to play computer games at home. I also only got it because my Grandpa died and it was bought with my share of the inheritance money. Lovely man, and it gave me something to remember him by. And my parents probably thought I would use it to help with my school work. lol...

[Confessor]

I'm a rubber fetish. Need I say more ?

[markopoloman]

The C64.
Yes, I love the C64 - my parents got it for me when I was a lad and yes, if they had got me a speccy I would probably be arguing that it was better than the C64..... But we all know that it isnt!

I've installed various emulators on the mame cab now (including the C64 and Speccy) so can play thousands of games on each system - and I just cant see how the Speccy could beat the C64.

Graphics:
C64 - Some early games are mega chunky, but as the years went by the programmers got the best from the machine - all those 'BROWN' comments are just stupid!
Speccy - Not chunky in the early days but suffered with mega colour clash. Later when the programmers got the hang of the system it suffered from colour clash! Ok the detail was good - but no better than games a few years into the C64's life.


Sound:
C64 - Sorry, not even worth an argument here. C64 = Awesome.
Speccy - beep. screeeeeeeech loading - Speccy = bollox!

Looks:
C64 - proper keyboard, big enough to be a computer, solid, built in joystick sockets, cart port, looks like a bread bin - and I like bread bins.
Speccy - original speccy - annoying rubber keys in a mini flat box. Newer speccy - even worse keys that dipped into the computer without gaps between them, so plenty of multi key presses. No joystick support unless you buy one!, - the only good thing about its looks was the colour.

Those rose tinted speccy owners...............................

[thevulture]

Extreme (D.I) was the best looking Speccy game i ever saw, believe it used lot of clever programming to effectively increase humble Speccy colour palate up to 16 colours and pulled off a few other neat tricks.

Had a C64 conversion, recal review in Zzap 64, where it was met with luke watm reception if memory serves, seem to recal auctual gameplay being tad simplistic.

[ncf1]

I think it's quite disgusting that no-one has mentioned yet that the larger, superior-weighted and not to mention delightful-to-grip C64 keyboard made for a wonderful item for meting out punishment when due on unruly children, especially when they played on their computer too much. The Spectrum simply couldn't cut it, it was embarrassing more or less, when I tried thwacking my son's bottom with that little thing, keys just flew everywhere and made a mess. That my wife then had to clean up.