The Really Must Have Jag Games?

[Liamh1982]

Which MK rip-off? There are a few.

I assume he meant Ultra Vortek since that was a game you'd recommended upthread. I've never played it and can't say whether it's any good or not but I can confirm that the other MK knock-off on the Jag (Kasumi Ninja) is a complete and utter turd.

I enjoy Kasumi Ninja - for all the wrong reasons. Angus and his fireball-shooting genitalia, for instance.

[thevulture]

@Mootown:Speaking as a day 1 Jaguar owner here, Raiden seemed an odd choice for a showcase Jaguar game, having appeared on 16 Bit formats like the MD, ok, it had no slowdown (or far less), but did'nt exactly scream power (very surprised to see Playstation get version years later as well), but learnt thanks to Jagfest that it and Crescent Galaxy (which i thought technically sounded more like an Amiga P.D demo than a game, boasting as it did of ray tracing), started life as Panther games.

Both re-written for the Jaguar instead.

Took AVP to convince myself of the Jaguar, before that i'd only had 2D Alien games like Alien 3 and Aliens coin-op, great as they were, Jaguar AVP suddenly made them seem very old hat, the prospect of playing a 3D Aliens game with digitised props from the movies, too good to pass up.

Lot of folks i knew back then saw little to impress on Jaguar, was'nt until Doom hit that they snapped up the machine, far cheaper (and easier to use) than a PC for your Doom fix.

[The Laird]

Shame about Gorf I would love to own a arcade perfect version of that.. Did it have the Galaxian stage included?

Arcade perfect in every way, including the secrets

All the speech was taken directly from the arcade game too.

[thevulture]

@Mootown:Was interesting at the time to see how the 'press' reacted to the early games shown to them by Atari, when they were invited down to Atari H.Q to see the Jaguar hardware.Mixed reactions, likes of Edge in true fashion rather over critical to a degree, but most came away impressed by likes of AVP, Tempest 2000 and Cheq.Flag (seen as Atari's answer to Virtua Racing), but perplexed by seeing Dino Dudes and Raiden on the hardware (seen as too old hat for '64-Bit' console) and in fits of giggles at Trevor Mcfur-Lions head stuck onto a uniform etc.

So it really was'nt until you saw something like AVP running that you'd sit up and take notice, well i did'nt.

Early days of Gamesmaster, future looked fantastic for the hardware-Talk of the CD drive (Freelancer 2120, looked damn impressive Doom affair), Tempest 2000 scoring so highly, Wolfenstien getting good reviews, Doom incoming, you sort of over looked the weaker games.

[thevulture]

Often wonder how i'd have reacted to the Jaguar IF i picked one up after buying a PS1/Saturn (when you could pick up new machine for next to nothing), rather thann buying a launch model.

Found PS1 Alien Trilogy to be very dissapointing after Jag.AVP, Tempest X3 smart, but Tempest 2000 the better game (for myself), Doom on PS1 had the edge thanks to the superb audio, but reckon Jag.version would still have impressed (best cart.ver). Loved PS1 Syndicate Wars, so probably loved Jag. Syndicate, Iron Solider would still impressed i reckon...

So it's always interesting to see how people 'just coming' to the hardware view it.

[killbot]

but perplexed by seeing Dino Dudes and Raiden on the hardware (seen as too old hat for '64-Bit' console)

This was one of the machine's major weaknesses - far too many of the games that did get released were slightly tarted up Amiga/MD/SNES games. I suppose it's tough to sell £250 of brand new state-of-the-art console to people so they can play the same games but with slightly more colours onscreen.

[DreamcastRIP]

but perplexed by seeing Dino Dudes and Raiden on the hardware (seen as too old hat for '64-Bit' console)

This was one of the machine's major weaknesses - far too many of the games that did get released were slightly tarted up Amiga/MD/SNES games. I suppose it's tough to sell £250 of brand new state-of-the-art console to people so they can play the same games but with slightly more colours onscreen.

Not unlike 3DS then, no?

[Jonboy1977]

but perplexed by seeing Dino Dudes and Raiden on the hardware (seen as too old hat for '64-Bit' console)

This was one of the machine's major weaknesses - far too many of the games that did get released were slightly tarted up Amiga/MD/SNES games. I suppose it's tough to sell £250 of brand new state-of-the-art console to people so they can play the same games but with slightly more colours onscreen.

Not unlike 3DS then, no?

Would'nt disagree with that statement, but its a lot easier to get away with it when you are putting peoples favourite console games onto a handheld and letting them play on the go. Its the standard procedure for most handhelds to be honest.its the old " I love this game, and now I can play it on the move " mentality.

Not so easy to get away with when you are releasing games from older machines onto a supposed state of the art next gen powerhouse home console.

[killbot]

but perplexed by seeing Dino Dudes and Raiden on the hardware (seen as too old hat for '64-Bit' console)

This was one of the machine's major weaknesses - far too many of the games that did get released were slightly tarted up Amiga/MD/SNES games. I suppose it's tough to sell £250 of brand new state-of-the-art console to people so they can play the same games but with slightly more colours onscreen.

Not unlike 3DS then, no?

Initially perhaps, but 3DS exclusive games are coming thick and fast now (Resi Revelations, Mario 3D Land, MK7, Kid Icarus). In fact the machine's reputation for being home to a bunch of retro remakes really only seems to boil down to three games (MGS3, OoT and Star Fox 64). I suppose technically the Splinter Cell game released on 3DS was a remake but it was pisspoor and nobody ever bought it so I don't bother counting it.

But definitely a big part of the reason I didn't bother with a Jag is that I could play Cannon Fodder, Syndicate, Sensi, Pinball Fantasies, Baldies, Zool 2, Theme Park, Fever Pitch Soccer, Power Drive, Brutal Sports Football and a fair few other Jag games on my Amiga without spending extra money on a whole new console. I could also play decent official conversions of Mortal Kombat and Super Hang On, which negated the need for clones like Ultra Vortek and Super Burnout. Around 1994 we bought a PC as well so then I could play Doom and Wolfenstein, removing another reason to want a Jaguar. AvP and Tempest 2000 were the only games I was even slightly jealous of at the time, though since my brother bought a Jag and I have played on it extensively I've realised there are a few more good games than that. I still feel like I did the right thing by not getting one at the time, though at the same time I can understand why so many people are fond of the console.

[The Laird]

To be fair quite a few of those games you mention improve on the original game and as I alreay said earlier Powerdrive is a sequel, its not the same game.

But yeah I can see the point but unfortunately the 3rd party Jag developers saw making a quick port from another machine as an easy way to make money and didn't really want to invest in making a proper Jag game or bother to learn the hardware.

Atari themselves released very few 16-bit ports, they released pretty much all the games that actually made use of the system.

[nakamura]

but perplexed by seeing Dino Dudes and Raiden on the hardware (seen as too old hat for '64-Bit' console)

This was one of the machine's major weaknesses - far too many of the games that did get released were slightly tarted up Amiga/MD/SNES games. I suppose it's tough to sell £250 of brand new state-of-the-art console to people so they can play the same games but with slightly more colours onscreen.

Not unlike 3DS then, no?

Depends if you are talking about the ports of Starfox and Zelda or Super SFIV and Ridge Racer. The N64 games are so much better visually than the N64 games, a much bigger step up than the Jaguar from the 16bit stuff. Also the time between ports is much larger so a lot of people may not have played them first time around.

[killbot]

To be fair quite a few of those games you mention improve on the original game and as I alreay said earlier Powerdrive is a sequel, its not the same game.

But yeah I can see the point but unfortunately the 3rd party Jag developers saw making a quick port from another machine as an easy way to make money and didn't really want to invest in making a proper Jag game or bother to learn the hardware.

Atari themselves released very few 16-bit ports, they released pretty much all the games that actually made use of the system.

I've said before that what crippled the Jag - and the CD32 - was that many devs had only made the leap to 16-bit a couple of years earlier. They didn't have the infrastructure, the resources or the talent pool required to produce big, technically impressive 3D titles. They wouldn't be ready to make that leap until '95 or '96 when Saturn, PS and N64 hit, so in 1993 all they wanted to do with the Jag/CD32 was either ignore them or else quickly and cheaply port over the 16-bit games they were already making. The few developers who actually made games that took advantage of the hardware got some impressive results (id, Rebellion, Atari) but they were pretty much on their own.

[AmigaJay]

To be fair quite a few of those games you mention improve on the original game and as I alreay said earlier Powerdrive is a sequel, its not the same game.

But yeah I can see the point but unfortunately the 3rd party Jag developers saw making a quick port from another machine as an easy way to make money and didn't really want to invest in making a proper Jag game or bother to learn the hardware.

Atari themselves released very few 16-bit ports, they released pretty much all the games that actually made use of the system.

I dont know how true this is from.what i remember reading, but Atari were in a similar situation Commodore were in with the CD32, at first they told devs to only make games that enhance aga titles, ie fmv titles, cd audio, akiko use, but a couple of months in the aaa games were tsking longer than expected so in the end they just said just port anything to get the release numbers up, hence loads of a500 shovelware upto xmas 93...
Perhaps Atari took a similar stance, at first saying must be 3d, texture mapped etc, then consumers were moaning at the lack.of releases in the first 6 months, maybe they sort some quick ports that were big at the time to get some new releases out there?

[killbot]

To be fair quite a few of those games you mention improve on the original game and as I alreay said earlier Powerdrive is a sequel, its not the same game.

But yeah I can see the point but unfortunately the 3rd party Jag developers saw making a quick port from another machine as an easy way to make money and didn't really want to invest in making a proper Jag game or bother to learn the hardware.

Atari themselves released very few 16-bit ports, they released pretty much all the games that actually made use of the system.

I dont know how true this is from.what i remember reading, but Atari were in a similar situation Commodore were in with the CD32, at first they told devs to only make games that enhance aga titles, ie fmv titles, cd audio, akiko use, but a couple of months in the aaa games were tsking longer than expected so in the end they just said just port anything to get the release numbers up, hence loads of a500 shovelware upto xmas 93...
Perhaps Atari took a similar stance, at first saying must be 3d, texture mapped etc, then consumers were moaning at the lack.of releases in the first 6 months, maybe they sort some quick ports that were big at the time to get some new releases out there?

Possibly. If that was the strategy it backfired badly since both consoles ended up with a reputation for being glorified 16-bit machines when they were actually much more capable than that.

[Jonboy1977]

To be fair quite a few of those games you mention improve on the original game and as I alreay said earlier Powerdrive is a sequel, its not the same game.

But yeah I can see the point but unfortunately the 3rd party Jag developers saw making a quick port from another machine as an easy way to make money and didn't really want to invest in making a proper Jag game or bother to learn the hardware.

Atari themselves released very few 16-bit ports, they released pretty much all the games that actually made use of the system.

The jaguar never had a chance to be honest, Not because of the hardware, but because of some of the absurd decisions Atari made.

A console launching with Trevor Mcfur, Raiden, and Cybermoroh were never going to tempt people away from the Megadrive or Snes.

Stun runner on the Lynx was better than the likes of Checkered flag and club drive, surely that team could have created an awesome port for the Jaguar. Scrolling beat em ups were hugely popular at the time and a quality upgrade port of the arcade/lynx version of Ninja gaiden would have competed with the best.

I mean Surely the Jaguar could have produced an arcade perfect port of hard drivin, and how much development time would it have took to knock out a quality version of Klax.