Fed Up of Being Nickel & Dimed This Gen!

[Misery]

Industry 'analyst' Michael Pachter,

“... the stuff on the disc, some gamers feel entitled to because they bought the disc, so they should have a right to anything that’s on the disc. And that’s a dicey one, you actually do own the disc and I think, theoretically, if you could crack the code on the DLC you probably would be allowed to access it without paying. And I’m not even sure that’s stealing because you did, in fact, buy the disc. That’s about as close as you can get to legal piracy.”

An interesting point!

Another thought:

Some have commented that for publishers to prosper they need to release paid for DLC in a world where so many gamers are content to wait a few weeks after a game's release in order to pick it up at a price far below its SRP.

Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?

Because "derp", basically.

They'd "prosper" better if they didnt spend 10 squillionty dollars on fully-voiced super-duper HDR hyper-bloom ultimate resolution anti-aliased screaming laser doom cutscenes. Excellent games WITHOUT those things have certainly prospered before!

[DreamcastRIP]

Some have commented that for publishers to prosper they need to release paid for DLC in a world where so many gamers are content to wait a few weeks after a game's release in order to pick it up at a price far below its SRP.

Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?

"Pre-Order Black Ops 2 from GAME and get this Day 1 unlockable super Sniper Rifle that can shoot through walls! Only from GAME!"

The real problem here is some people don't want to spend £50-£60 on a new game. Not because we're all thieving skinflints! (although I am! ) it's because oftentimes there are so many games being released at full price we just don't have the time to play them all!

Why should I buy Skyrim on day 1 for £50 when I'm still playing Saint's Row 3? Should I be expected to buy it full price on day 1, even though I won't get to play it for another couple of months? Or is it still ok for me to buy it when I'm "ready" to play it? What happens if other games (and oh boy, there will be others) come by in the meantime? All full price too? Whether I'm ready or not?

The poor Publishers! So much product available! So many mouths to feed!

So would it be fair to say, that for you at least, there is an over-supply of good games being released nowadays? Surely choice is a good thing overall? Although I do 'get' where you're coming from, i.e. that 'too much choice' isn't always easy to cope with!

I don't know if any publisher has tried what I suggested yet. Anyone here know if one has?

Because "derp", basically.

They'd "prosper" better if they didnt spend 10 squillionty dollars on fully-voiced super-duper HDR hyper-bloom ultimate resolution anti-aliased screaming laser doom cutscenes. Excellent games WITHOUT those things have certainly prospered before!

Are you implying Metal Gear Solid 4 wouldn't have been as good a game without its 90 minute cutscene/s?

[retrosofer]

Industry 'analyst' Michael Pachter,

“... the stuff on the disc, some gamers feel entitled to because they bought the disc, so they should have a right to anything that’s on the disc. And that’s a dicey one, you actually do own the disc and I think, theoretically, if you could crack the code on the DLC you probably would be allowed to access it without paying. And I’m not even sure that’s stealing because you did, in fact, buy the disc. That’s about as close as you can get to legal piracy.”

An interesting point!

Another thought:

Some have commented that for publishers to prosper they need to release paid for DLC in a world where so many gamers are content to wait a few weeks after a game's release in order to pick it up at a price far below its SRP.

Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?

While i think Pachter has made a good point here, i cant stand the guys predictions and analising of the gaming industry, because most of the time he's full of S***, it gets on my nerves how Gamespot and Eurogamer can at times quote the crap out of him and site his bull as future set in stone. Why cant the rest of us be paid to talk through are arses and come up with any old crap. I dont go to Gamespot anymore if anyone was wondering why i went there at all.

I think it was about 3 or more years ago, give or take, that most publishers were offering all kinds of free day 1 DLC codes with games for those who bought the games on day 1, brand new, or pre-ordered them, but as time went on this kind of thing really tailered off somewhat. Whether publishers thought screw this, why give them this when we can charge people for this crap, cha-ching, i dont know, but its certinally not as prevelant as it used to be.

I wonder though if part of all these bad fleecing practices is in part due to how big some publishers have become here in the west? Like EA & Activision for example, as lets face it, they can be the worst offenders. EA & Activision have bought so many devs and become so all encompassingly big, that they might have to resort to such tactics to make money just to feed their machine and keep the cogs moving. There are alot of other publishers, but EA & Activision are pretty dominant, i wonder if these two gients were significantly smaller, if alot of these practices would exist at all, or be as dominent, and would there be more publishers and devs still around?

[DreamcastRIP]

While i think Pachter has made a good point here, i cant stand the guys predictions and analising of the gaming industry, because most of the time he's full of S***, it gets on my nerves how Gamespot and Eurogamer can at times quote the crap out of him and site his bull as future set in stone. Why cant the rest of us be paid to talk through are arses and come up with any old crap. I dont go to Gamespot anymore if anyone was wondering why i went there at all.

I think it was about 3 or more years ago, give or take, that most publishers were offering all kinds of free day 1 DLC codes with games for those who bought the games on day 1, brand new, or pre-ordered them, but as time went on this kind of thing really tailered off somewhat. Whether publishers thought screw this, why give them this when we can charge people for this crap, cha-ching, i dont know, but its certinally not as prevelant as it used to be.

I wonder though if part of all these bad fleecing practices is in part due to how big some publishers have become here in the west? Like EA & Activision for example, as lets face it, they can be the worst offenders. EA & Activision have bought so many devs and become so all encompassingly big, that they might have to resort to such tactics to make money just to feed their machine and keep the cogs moving. There are alot of other publishers, but EA & Activision are pretty dominant, i wonder if these two gients were significantly smaller, if alot of these practices would exist at all, or be as dominent, and would there be more publishers and devs still around?

Yep, Pachter's record sure makes for interesting reading ! Maybe it's relevant or not, I don't know, but he seems most hated by rabid Ninty fans more than any other fans from what I've noticed. Presumably because some of his 'Ninty doesn't always know best' analysis rubs said fanboys up the wrong way. Just an observation...

Really interesting to hear that of DLC a few years back. Did that happen on PS3 and/or Xbox 360 or was it just a PC and/or Mac thing? I seem to recall having downloaded some extra content for MotorStorm (PS3) several years ago which was free but I don't recall said DLC only been free for a limited period. Maybe it was and my memory's failing me!

I'm not convinced the "fleecing practices" are somehow linked in with that of Western publishers. Capcom are arguably the 'worst' offenders of all and they're a Japanese company.

[slacey1070]

If publishers can't push out games at a price consumers can afford to pay, then they shouldnt be in business, as they clearly don't understand it.

[Freestyler]

So would it be fair to say, that for you at least, there is an over-supply of good games being released nowadays? Surely choice is a good thing overall? Although I do 'get' where you're coming from, i.e. that 'too much choice' isn't always easy to cope with!

I don't know if any publisher has tried what I suggested yet. Anyone here know if one has?

If you came to my house now and cleared out my entire backlog of "To Play" games I'd still struggle to buy games on Day 1. Why?

Not counting the endless sales on GoG, Steam, GamersGate, Direct2Drive, and Humble Bundle, I'm offered (nay practically forced! ) to "consider" reduced-price games via email from the likes of Amazon and Play.com. That's before I've even considered the wealth of pre-owned titles from the likes of ebay, GAME, CeX, Cash Generator...

Simply put; I am offered so many different ways of buying games for vastly under the original price that, unless I want to buy a game and play it immediately there's absolutely no reason to buy full price. The shops themselves are trying to persuade me not to! That's without even getting into the debate on massive release schedules!

Gaming has it's own major self-inflicted problem, and that problem is volume.

[Freestyler]

On the subject of Publishers; let's take a look at EA. How much product do you think they need to shift just to make the wages bill every month?
No wonder they're the way they are.

Zerg.

[ShadowNeku]

So would it be fair to say, that for you at least, there is an over-supply of good games being released nowadays? Surely choice is a good thing overall? Although I do 'get' where you're coming from, i.e. that 'too much choice' isn't always easy to cope with!

I don't know if any publisher has tried what I suggested yet. Anyone here know if one has?

If you came to my house now and cleared out my entire backlog of "To Play" games I'd still struggle to buy games on Day 1. Why?

Not counting the endless sales on GoG, Steam, GamersGate, Direct2Drive, and Humble Bundle, I'm offered (nay practically forced! ) to "consider" reduced-price games via email from the likes of Amazon and Play.com. That's before I've even considered the wealth of pre-owned titles from the likes of ebay, GAME, CeX, Cash Generator...

Simply put; I am offered so many different ways of buying games for vastly under the original price that, unless I want to buy a game and play it immediately there's absolutely no reason to buy full price. The shops themselves are trying to persuade me not to! That's without even getting into the debate on massive release schedules!

Gaming has it's own major self-inflicted problem, and that problem is volume.

Yup, this is me all over. Its really hard for me to justify buying anything on day 1 anymore due to the enormous pile of unplayed games i already have. With every publisher striving to give you a 30+ hour experiance in single player plus supported multiplayer, a lot of current gen games are designed as time sinks yet we are flooded with constant new releases through retail and digital services. As a consumer its very hard to keep up with so much content to the extent that i dont think ive touched a new release (excluding the XBLA Wonder Boy collection) in over 6 months.

[Rayne]

If developers can't make games at a price consumers can afford to pay, then they shouldnt be in business, as they clearly don't understand it.

Surely it's the publishers that should be blamed for that?

[slacey1070]

If developers can't make games at a price consumers can afford to pay, then they shouldnt be in business, as they clearly don't understand it.

Surely it's the publishers that should be blamed for that?

Apologies, that's what I meant.. will edit.

[Rayne]

Still not wholly convinced with the idea that everyone is being taken to town over the prices of games. I'd actually argue that quality gaming has never been cheaper.

[Freestyler]

Perhaps Devs should go through a couple years of smaller, boutique games? Give us all time to catch up!

Seriously though, I've been playing Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 lately. One after the other. I'm on the last mission of ME3, so I've only got about an hour or two before it's done. Even so I know I'll have spent almost two hundred hours on them. I even bought Mass Effect 3 new, so I could get the Multiplayer. Never paid £40 though. I was playing the first game at the time, so by the time I got around to the third it'd dropped to £22. A steal!

The point is; while I was otherwise occupied with these monsters, other games were released. And ignored. Hell, I still don't even have SKYRIM, and that's a game I've waited for forever! Why didn't I buy it? Well, because I was already locked in Fallout 3, or was it Batman: Arkham Asylum? Or maybe Saints Row 3? What was it!?

I don't even play those CoD type games. If I did I'd have even less time to search out new titles. Some guys on here have put a thousand hours into those!

[Misery]

So would it be fair to say, that for you at least, there is an over-supply of good games being released nowadays? Surely choice is a good thing overall? Although I do 'get' where you're coming from, i.e. that 'too much choice' isn't always easy to cope with!

I don't know if any publisher has tried what I suggested yet. Anyone here know if one has?

If you came to my house now and cleared out my entire backlog of "To Play" games I'd still struggle to buy games on Day 1. Why?

Not counting the endless sales on GoG, Steam, GamersGate, Direct2Drive, and Humble Bundle, I'm offered (nay practically forced! ) to "consider" reduced-price games via email from the likes of Amazon and Play.com. That's before I've even considered the wealth of pre-owned titles from the likes of ebay, GAME, CeX, Cash Generator...

Simply put; I am offered so many different ways of buying games for vastly under the original price that, unless I want to buy a game and play it immediately there's absolutely no reason to buy full price. The shops themselves are trying to persuade me not to! That's without even getting into the debate on massive release schedules!

Gaming has it's own major self-inflicted problem, and that problem is volume.

Aye, this.

Though at the same time..... there are SO MANY gamers that dont know about all these.... in particular, if they dont do PC gaming at all, alot of those options instantly vanish. Depends too on the stores in the area, where I'm at, aint any of those good pre-owned prices from..... er..... whatever the heck those companies are ("Cash Generator?") We have Gamestops here. Gamestops do not do "deals". Gamestops do "we're the only thing in the area, so we'll price it at whatever we want and you'll LIKE it". Which is as close to a deal as they get. Thus, everyone I know, including those that are often low on money, end up ALWAYS paying full price or so close to full that it doesnt matter.

but he seems most hated by rabid Ninty fans more than any other fans from what I've noticed. Presumably because some of his 'Ninty doesn't always know best' analysis rubs said fanboys up the wrong way.

I like him already.

[slacey1070]

Still not wholly convinced with the idea that everyone is being taken to town over the prices of games. I'd actually argue that quality gaming has never been cheaper.

I vote with my wallet, rarely paying full price. I got skyrim for £20 for example....so, personally, I rarely feel conned.... I research and spend wisely because that's where my budget is right now.

[Dudley]

It seems that even Capcom have realised that one disc DLC was a step too far.
DLC annoys me in general, since it's a blatant way to get more money and hurt the second hand market, but on disc DLC is a disgrace. It's like buying a brand new car equipped with sat nav, but then having to pay extra for the dealer to switch it on

Artificially disabling features in lower end cars happens all the time.

For instance, those times there's a 2.0 (115hp), 2.0 (130hp), 2.0 (150hp) model etc. Frequently just a software difference for your 3 grand.

If you want my money it is up to you THE PUBLISHER to sort out a product I want, for a price I'm willing to pay. For a price I'm willing to pay, remember. Not what you want to charge me. I am the customer. You need me, not the other way around. I can go elsewhere, as easy as pie. I have zero loyalty, and you shouldn't expect any. I am a Consumer.

But it's not about you, it's about you and 5.99 billion other people and plenty of people recognise that if you want something like Skyrim it's going to cost money to produce and are merely hoping that some people will consider the princely sum of 50p an hour reasonable value for entertainment.

Well, why don't publishers offer these 'day one' DLC packs (on disc or not) for free for the first couple of weeks after a game's launched so to encourage more gamers to pay the full SRP?

They do. The collector's editions of ME3 came with the first DLC, Borderlands 2 will give away its first DLC to everyone who preordered. Ditto LA Noire.

--

Incidentally, I found a story the other day about Microprose increasing their PC RRPs to 44.99. From April 1993.

Games are cheaper than ever, games are bigger than ever and unlike then if you can't afford or don't want to pay that kind of money there's censored incredible scene on XBLA and XBIG (Apple Jack 2 is under a quid ffs), on PSN, on iOS and on the PC with Steam/Humble Bundles etc.

There's something for everyone. What there ISN'T is everything for YOU and you shouldn't expect that. I've spent somewhere around 200 hours on Borderlands, 70 odd on each of the Mass Effects and god knows what on Skyrim. Compared to literally every other entertainment hours per pound option you can name, gaming is astonishingly cheap if you buy good games.

If the complaint is really that there are too many good games to play them all maybe if you WERE playing them and not coming across (as some are here) like entitled twats on message boards then you'd get through a few more of them.