Is piracy wrong?

[will2097]

Piracy is wrong.

It is an unassailable truth. Democratically elected officials drew up legislation and laws were passed that said Piracy is essentially a form of theft.

Breaking the law is wrong.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, admittidly in the case of VHSing (which was a shock to me) Dr Who it's understandable, but should anyone care, then you have still broken the law. It's still wrong therefore. Just because there are VHS recorders and Granny does it and no-one cares, doesn't alter anything.

Because I didn't know. Because the makers of Dr Who didn't know i did it. Doesn't make it right.

If you copy ancient unwanted uncared for long lost games, like me, it's still wrong, it's still against the law. When I do it, I'm still depriving the original artists, developers, publishers of their money. Just because there is no sensible mechanism for resolving this, doesn't alter the fact it's wrong. It's against the law. I have stolen something. Something that I am not entitled to.

The classic 'I wouldn't have bought it anyway' line, is merely an attempt to justify illegal actions. If you wouldn't buy, you seem happy to steal it? And the justification is 'because you can'. Well true, but it's still wrong.

The whole depriving FAT CATS of their profits and I'm new age Digital Robin Hood is a load of rubbish. Robin Hood was a thief. It's simply an thin veiled excuse.

It doesn't matter whether you steel a 0.0005p from the guy behind the counter in Gamestation or or whether you steal £50 from him. You've still stolen from him. Piracy is theft. You deprive the video games sales channel of revenue.

The point being. Whether you agree with a law or not is irrelevant. Breaking the law is wrong. The laws are decided democratically.

The law is not an independent 'thing'. It's created by the people you vote for. If you do not like a law, exercise your democratic right and vote for people who agree with your opinion* or alternatively get yourself elected, get supporters, and alter the law yourself. Simply ignoring it is another option but it would still be wrong - because you are breaking the law.

Consider this. If an extraterrestrial descended to Earth, ignorant of our laws, and found granny in the woods and then killed her, would it be wrong? I think it would.

Just because some crimes are very easy, very common, arguable, indefensible and confusing. Doesn't stop them being crimes. Comitting a crime is wrong. By claiming that it is not - then you arguing against the majority who thought it was - so your still wrong. Majority rule.

*Sega2006 not included. He needs to lobby his mum and dad.

[felgekarp]

Pardon my ignorance on this issue but how then can people get away with manufacturing equipment that allows you to do everything that's been mentioned previously?, surely somebody somewhere is turning a blind eye then.

[Sega2006]

*Sega2006 not included. He needs to lobby his mum and dad.

Meany

Yes Piracy is very much wrong, but I still do it. Infact eveyone in this house but the Dog(unless he is burning Dvds and CD's and selling them behind my back) does it in some form or another. I often use piracy to see if its worth me walking into the shop and buying whatever I downloaded, how do you think I discoverd all the awsome bands without a radio? I never buy pirate stuff, and I certainly will not illegally download a Charity song as in most cases these people are going to be hit harder than that of a record company or rich bunch artists. The thing is why do they market a CD/DVD burner? why market a VHS recorder and not a player? With these instruments piracy is easiley comitted but yet the goverment claim they are putting piracy under control.

[SirClive]

Because there are perfectly legal and legitimate uses for them.

[woody.cool]

I can't understand copy protection on audio CDs. Line out. Line In. Copy protection removed.

Newer version of Easy CD-DA Extractor can get around copy protection on Audio CD's anyway, completely stopping the need for analogue copying!

[Utini]

So, we've listened to Stu and Dudley's comments, and if we're sensible we've reached the conclusion that they're absolutely right.

So what's the next course of action? How are we going to stop the evil corporations from eroding our rights further, how are we going to get back what we've lost?

[sirclive1]

How do sky get round the recording issue with sky+ ?

[will2097]

So, we've listened to Stu and Dudley's comments, and if we're sensible we've reached the conclusion that they're absolutely right.

So what's the next course of action? How are we going to stop the evil corporations from eroding our rights further, how are we going to get back what we've lost?

What have you lost? Perhaps it's down the back of the sofa? Have you looked?

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Piracy is wrong.

It is an unassailable truth. Democratically elected officials drew up legislation and laws were passed that said Piracy is essentially a form of theft.

Breaking the law is wrong.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, admittidly in the case of VHSing (which was a shock to me) Dr Who it's understandable, but should anyone care, then you have still broken the law. It's still wrong therefore. Just because there are VHS recorders and Granny does it and no-one cares, doesn't alter anything.

Because I didn't know. Because the makers of Dr Who didn't know i did it. Doesn't make it right.

If you copy ancient unwanted uncared for long lost games, like me, it's still wrong, it's still against the law. When I do it, I'm still depriving the original artists, developers, publishers of their money. Just because there is no sensible mechanism for resolving this, doesn't alter the fact it's wrong. It's against the law. I have stolen something. Something that I am not entitled to.

The classic 'I wouldn't have bought it anyway' line, is merely an attempt to justify illegal actions. If you wouldn't buy, you seem happy to steal it? And the justification is 'because you can'. Well true, but it's still wrong.

The whole depriving FAT CATS of their profits and I'm new age Digital Robin Hood is a load of rubbish. Robin Hood was a thief. It's simply an thin veiled excuse.

It doesn't matter whether you steel a 0.0005p from the guy behind the counter in Gamestation or or whether you steal £50 from him. You've still stolen from him. Piracy is theft. You deprive the video games sales channel of revenue.

The point being. Whether you agree with a law or not is irrelevant. Breaking the law is wrong. The laws are decided democratically.

The law is not an independent 'thing'. It's created by the people you vote for. If you do not like a law, exercise your democratic right and vote for people who agree with your opinion* or alternatively get yourself elected, get supporters, and alter the law yourself. Simply ignoring it is another option but it would still be wrong - because you are breaking the law.

Consider this. If an extraterrestrial descended to Earth, ignorant of our laws, and found granny in the woods and then killed her, would it be wrong? I think it would.

Just because some crimes are very easy, very common, arguable, indefensible and confusing. Doesn't stop them being crimes. Comitting a crime is wrong. By claiming that it is not - then you arguing against the majority who thought it was - so your still wrong. Majority rule.

Life's a lot easier when you let other people do all the thinking for you, isn't it?

Just one thing, though:

The laws are decided democratically.

That made me laugh so hard I very nearly shat myself. You should be on the stage.

[Smurph]

Piracy is wrong.

It is an unassailable truth. Democratically elected officials drew up legislation and laws were passed that said Piracy is essentially a form of theft.

Breaking the law is wrong.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, admittidly in the case of VHSing (which was a shock to me) Dr Who it's understandable, but should anyone care, then you have still broken the law. It's still wrong therefore. Just because there are VHS recorders and Granny does it and no-one cares, doesn't alter anything.

Because I didn't know. Because the makers of Dr Who didn't know i did it. Doesn't make it right.

If you copy ancient unwanted uncared for long lost games, like me, it's still wrong, it's still against the law. When I do it, I'm still depriving the original artists, developers, publishers of their money. Just because there is no sensible mechanism for resolving this, doesn't alter the fact it's wrong. It's against the law. I have stolen something. Something that I am not entitled to.

The classic 'I wouldn't have bought it anyway' line, is merely an attempt to justify illegal actions. If you wouldn't buy, you seem happy to steal it? And the justification is 'because you can'. Well true, but it's still wrong.

The whole depriving FAT CATS of their profits and I'm new age Digital Robin Hood is a load of rubbish. Robin Hood was a thief. It's simply an thin veiled excuse.

It doesn't matter whether you steel a 0.0005p from the guy behind the counter in Gamestation or or whether you steal £50 from him. You've still stolen from him. Piracy is theft. You deprive the video games sales channel of revenue.

The point being. Whether you agree with a law or not is irrelevant. Breaking the law is wrong. The laws are decided democratically.

The law is not an independent 'thing'. It's created by the people you vote for. If you do not like a law, exercise your democratic right and vote for people who agree with your opinion* or alternatively get yourself elected, get supporters, and alter the law yourself. Simply ignoring it is another option but it would still be wrong - because you are breaking the law.

Consider this. If an extraterrestrial descended to Earth, ignorant of our laws, and found granny in the woods and then killed her, would it be wrong? I think it would.

Just because some crimes are very easy, very common, arguable, indefensible and confusing. Doesn't stop them being crimes. Comitting a crime is wrong. By claiming that it is not - then you arguing against the majority who thought it was - so your still wrong. Majority rule.

*Sega2006 not included. He needs to lobby his mum and dad.

How's the weather up there on your high horse?

[SirClive]

I still want to know why people think they have a right to have anything at all that they feel like having.

[CraigGrannell]

The laws are decided democratically.

Not in the UK, they're not, or at least they are very, very rarely. Effectively, we install by somewhat democratic means a near-dictatorial set-up, where they then create laws with little input from the population. Sometimes this follows public opinion, but often it really doesn't.

Pardon my ignorance on this issue but how then can people get away with manufacturing equipment that allows you to do everything that's been mentioned previously?

Video recorders and PVRs get away with it because some broadcasts are considered public domain and are therefore legal to record. This is similar to iPods being legal because there are legal uses (iTunes/uploading songs you have the rights to copy), even if most users are technically using them in an illegal fashion. Or: I buy a knife, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stab someone with it.

I still want to know why people think they have a right to have anything at all that they feel like having.

Some people always feel like that. In my work as a designer, this is problematic sometimes, because people think that as they're not getting a material object, they should somehow pay me nothing or very little. The problem, for me, is that media companies are pushing very hard in the other direction. I'm certain that if they stopped taking the p*ss out of legitimate consumers that 1) they'd get more respect, and; 2) they'd get more income. So, no more:

- Trailers at the start of commercial DVDs (as extras, fine, but not at the start);
- DRM-encoded music;
- Condescending and patronising piracy adverts at the start of films at the flicks;
- Misleading advertising comparing piracy to theft;
- Avoiding the introduction of basic fair-use laws.
- Making owners of legitimately bought games jump through hoops to get the sodding thing working, despite cracked versions working right away.

Yeah, I know—fat chance.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

I still want to know why people think they have a right to have anything at all that they feel like having.

They don't feel that they have a "right" to it. They feel that it's possible for them to have it, and that it's not hurting anyone, so why not?

[EvilArmourKing]

So tell me Dudley :

Have you EVER done anything piracy related as stipulated in your post??

Copied something off the TV onto a VHS tape?

Copied a game? Or at least own a copied game??

Or anything else that would be considered illegal?

I look forward to your HONEST answer

[Dudley]

Pardon my ignorance on this issue but how then can people get away with manufacturing equipment that allows you to do everything that's been mentioned previously?, surely somebody somewhere is turning a blind eye then.

Oh they do turn a blind eye. The BPI for instance has specifically said they would never sue someone for mp3ing a CD (which they would have to do, it's a civil matter not a criminal one, don't confuse something being illegal with it being a crime).

But if you're using the law as your one true guide, which several people have suggested is the only real metric in this thread, then you still can't do those things.

The thing is why do they market a CD/DVD burner? why market a VHS recorder and not a player?

Officially?

For backing up your own data and your home movies respectively.

How do sky get round the recording issue with sky+ ?

They're the broadcaster and thus the copyright holder of that transmission. If they allow it, it's not illegal anymore. That said, they DO stop you recording certain programs on Sky+ I believe and limit the amount of time you can keep them (someone with sky correct me on this)

All these "It's illegal" ones have the fairly obvious unspoken suffix "without permission".

I still want to know why people think they have a right to have anything at all that they feel like having.

Simply they feel that an action which hurts no-one is an action no-one should be against.

You could use that against any law. Why do black people think they have a right to sit at the front of a bus. Why do I have the right to 1 day off a week? Why do I have the right to have kids? Why do I have the right to do just about anything that was illegal at one stage or another?

So tell me Dudley :

Have you EVER done anything piracy related as stipulated in your post??

Copied something off the TV onto a VHS tape?

Copied a game? Or at least own a copied game??

Or anything else that would be considered illegal?

I look forward to your HONEST answer

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

You're asking the wrong person, either of the Sir Clives or will would be a better bet. I think it's pretty clear from my posts that I have.

However, in the last month I've bought 3 CDs, 3 DVDs, Full Auto on 360 ,Command and Conquer 3 on PC and Paperboy, Boom Boom Rocket and Jetpac on XBLA. Any piracy I may or may not do is almost certainly not adversely affecting my purchases.

Hell, read the thread, there's a point where piracy would have INCREASED my legal media spend if only the 2 CDs in question didn't have lovely Sony butchered copy protection on them.